This seems to be a very fragile time in the points world. There has been more arguing and more “angries” the last few months than I can remember there ever being in this hobby. Even topics or techniques that are seemingly harmless or well-known can set people off about how this or that shouldn’t be blogged because it will “kill” the deal. This week has been a microcosm of that debate, and unfortunately I’ve been sucked into it to the point where I feel the need to write this post (and will likely anger some friends).
Here’s my opinion of the current state of our game: most “expert” and even mid-level points hobbyists currently have or have recently had most of the credit cards that earn big bonuses, so the focus has shifted to manufactured spending (MS) to earn large numbers of points. To get 50K points now often requires spending $50K on your points/miles-earning credit cards instead of just a signup bonus. That’s obviously a lot of money to cycle through your accounts, so it’s not easy to find a method that allows you to work with that much money. These opportunities do exist, however, and people build their routine and scale up their MS purchases.
The problem we’re running into now is that many MS avenues have recently been shut down, while at the same time award chart devaluations have significantly increased the number of points needed. The perception has become that there are limited MS techniques left available, and the people that partake in those techniques have become extremely defensive (and sometimes offensive) whenever a blogger writes about it.
Example 1
A few weeks ago I wrote about how to use PIN-enabled gift cards to buy money orders. My thinking was that this is clearly an established technique, discussed by dozens of blogs before me, but I wanted to write it in my voice because I like to simplify things. I mentioned buying gift cards at CVS, which everyone knew could still be done, and then liquidating them at Walmart, which everyone knew could be done (note that you can’t use Vanilla-branded cards anymore). I didn’t mention any other stores, any other gift cards, or any new technique. But I got absolutely blasted by the community; just check the comments in that post.
The reasons were many, but in general the criticism was “Why tell more people and risk it getting shut down? It doesn’t help anyone when that happens.” This is absolutely a fair point, and while I understand this criticism…I don’t agree with it. My point of view is that this technique was so widely publicized in blogs and on FlyerTalk that I didn’t provide a single bit of new information – I only simplified it. Sure, I’ll reach some people that didn’t know about it before but that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people already doing it, plus they likely would have read it somewhere else anyway if they made their way to my blog.
I was accused of being a bad “steward of MS” for that post by not protecting the technique. My point of view is completely the opposite – I think I was being a good steward by simplifying the process and and providing tips and advice so that people who use this technique don’t mess it up by saying or doing the wrong thing. Would you rather have someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing try to figure it out by trial and error, or have them already know the process so it can go smoothly without raising a single eyebrow? I pick the latter every time, and that’s why I write many of the posts I do.
Example 2
A very similar case to mine above happened just a couple of days ago. The Points Guy, a blog I don’t read anymore and don’t even like, had a post about Amazon Payments and how to use it to MS. People (including good friends) were furious on Twitter and in the comments section of the post. I took a look and honestly I see little or nothing wrong with the post.
You know why? Because it’s been on Fat Wallet since August 10, 2010; it’s been on DansDeals since September 3, 2010; it’s been on FlyerTalk since November 5, 2010. It’s been on Million Mile Secrets since July 7, 2011; and it’s been on TravelSort since December 21, 2012. Just google “Amazon Payments Points” and read the dozens of pages of points and travel blogs that have discussed it over the last four years, including many this year and the last few months.
And you’re going to tell me that TPG was irresponsible for posting it? The only part that might be slightly objectionable on his post was the last FAQ section mentioning gift cards, which could have been left unsaid because it was so obvious. Still, I see no basis for the argument against it except that the people with knowledge don’t want anyone else to have it, because as far as I can see it was disseminated in an appropriate way with appropriate cautions.
And the argument that he’s just trying to get people to sign up for credit cards? Normally it’s 100% warranted on his website…but there’s not a single credit card link in that post – something that’s shocking even to me.
Example 3
One of my posts again caused a small amount of controversy a few days ago. My post was about how to MS 135K AA miles for a round trip First Class award ticket. Again, my logic was that I was bringing no new information to the table, but rather explaining how to calculate the costs of using a certain technique to MS. I mentioned money orders and Bluebird, which everyone already knows about, but the one thing that angered people was a single sentence in that post: “Simon malls sells gift cards up to $500 for a $3 fee for normal personal/consumer purchases.”
I provided no link, and again I provided no new information. It’s been on Milepoint since April 6; PointChaser wrote about it on April 6; Million Mile Secrets wrote it about it on April 22; PointChaser wrote about it again on June 23; and View from the Wing wrote about it on June 23rd. There are tons of other blogs and websites that have written about it as well.
So…my one sentence with the term “Simon malls,” with the rest of the post devoted only to calculating costs and credit card strategy, was enough for me to be called irresponsible. George from Travel Blogger Buzz (whom I consider to be a friend – I’ve sought is advice numerous times on a variety of things) said the following about my post:
“I don’t want to link to the post because the last thing we need is more exposure. I understand the pressure between full time blogging and aiming to earn a living doing this and the incredible fragility of some of the deals out there. I mean, is it any wonder so many of us keep our mouths shut and only tell our close friends we trust?”
Wow. I made a post that contained no affiliate links, and I earn maybe a few dollars a day from ads on the blog, so the “earn a living” comment is just incorrect. The “fragility” of this deal? First of all, I didn’t even talk about that deal in any kind of detail. Second of all, two heavyweights of the points world, Million Mile Secrets and View from the Wing, wrote about Simon in great detail, but my post is the one that gets criticized (no offense to Ariana btw). How does that work?
And you know how I know TBB has a double standard? Because another great blog, Frequent Miler, just discussed all the good opportunities to buy gift cards for MS. It was a great post, as most of Frequent Miler’s posts are. View from the Wing even linked to it as part of a summary on useful information for the day. In FM’s post, he had a section titled “Shopping Malls” and he wrote the following:
“Many indoor shopping malls have gift card displays, often near the information desk. Visa gift cards aren’t always on display so you may have to ask for them. Usually, fees are $2.95 or less for cards with values up to $500 each. Simon Mall Visa cards work well, but watch out for Glimcher Visa gift cards as these seem to be useless as debit cards. Unfortunately, I’m not aware of any credit cards that earn a category bonus for generic shopping mall purchases.”
All of it is good information. But since I got blasted for my post, I’m sure Frequent Miler would receive the same condemnation on his post, right? I asked George about it, and here’s the response:
Also, it seems people have short memories. I write posts like this one pretty regularly, and one of my first ones was the Ink/Bluebird Award Cost Charts (a post that’s still valid today for the most part). Not only did I explain where to buy gift cards, but I went into extreme detail of the costs to get around the world AND posted an affiliate link. And guess what…that post received almost universal praise, including from TBB himself in the comments:
“OMG, an affiliate link that does not warrant bitching as it is clear you actually put some time in this post AND it is very helpful for your readers!”
In one year I went from being praised for a detailed post to condemned for a more vague post. Go figure.
Okay, So What?
Many, many people have voiced their opinion on what they think is inappropriate to post. For every person that says something shouldn’t be posted, there’s usually another (usually a beginner in the points world) that says they’re thankful for that post. I think the real takeaway here is this: who the heck cares? Do you (the angries) really think you’re affecting any change by saying how inappropriate it was to post something? Do you think you’re changing the minds of bloggers?
You’re not. You have the opposite affect, actually. You comment, tweet, and complain, and it gets the attention of everyone else that wasn’t even going to read about it. Controversy sells – it’s what TMZ is and what TBB is – and all you do is bring attention to it. My gift card and money order post was the most read post I’ve had in months, and all because so many people kept commenting on it. I wouldn’t have even read the TPG post if I didn’t see so many people complaining about it on Twitter.
These posts are going to be written whether you like it or not. Every blogger has his or her own line that they will not cross (Frequent Miler even tried to define it), and it’s an arbitrary line set by each individual. It’s highly unlikely that angry comments will move that line, so really your best course of action is to stay silent. Don’t make a fuss, don’t bring any more attention to it. You’re already stuck in the quicksand…struggling will only make it worse.
But Bloggers Only Do It for Money!
It’s soooooo easy to say “oh they do it for the money.” It’s a convenient explanation, but it’s also a cynical and sometimes incorrect view of the world. Sure, some bloggers operate this way and are rightly chastised for it. TPG is one of them, but how can you blame his motivation for money in that post where he wouldn’t even make any conversions or commissions?
The angry, anti-bloggers will then say that it’s all to attract more viewers, which can then lead to making money. Let’s not kid ourselves – bloggers are trying to make money. Many, like myself recently, are now full-time bloggers. The assumption then becomes that everything a blogger writes about is to make money, either immediately or down the line. I have two things to say to that. 1) I feel very sad for you if you think that way, because some people do like helping other people without the expectation of payment, as hard as that is for some of you to believe; 2) Okay, bloggers hope to be paid in the future. So what? Isn’t building good-will and a devoted following by writing informative posts a good thing? The problem is that most angries make the assumption that all bloggers will end up making money in an inappropriate or dishonest manner by shilling credit cards or writing solely to collect referral bonuses. These angries make a lot of assumptions and have a very stark view of the world. And if that’s what you’re criticizing me for, then you’re literally criticizing me for something I haven’t even done yet!
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and think about this for a bit. Yes, bloggers want to make money, but there’s nothing wrong with that itself. If someone gives bad information or writes unnecessary posts filled with affiliate links, then you absolutely have an argument. But otherwise, like all three examples above in my opinion, there’s really nothing wrong with it. And don’t assume that blogging is the only way to make money. Most bloggers have award booking services and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re involved in other money-making endeavors. This blog certainly isn’t the only way I make money now that I’ve quit my “real” job.
The New Points “Community”
These days everyone’s a blogger or knows a blogger. This hobby used to be about sharing so that others can get in on the deal, but now it’s devolved into a highly sectarian community where most deals have gone completely underground for fear of them being blogged about and killed. There are so many mistake fares and MS deals around that you just don’t hear about because no one posts them anymore. People have formed small groups and alliances where they feel comfortable sharing information in exchange for their promise not to share beyond that group. That’s why there aren’t as many new deals you hear about – they exist, just not publicly.
We in the points world have serious trust issues, are extremely paranoid, very selfish, and some have very real anger issues. That’s the current state of the points world from my perspective.
To support Tavel Summary click this affiliate link (juuuust kidding) 😛
Great post! Do what you think / FEEL is RIGHT!
We do not LIVE by what others( NEGATIVE ) people have to say/write.
This was a very “drops mic and walks away” type of post, and spot on as usual!
This stuff would make a great research project for a PHD candidate in psychology!
Or even a movie!!
Hey even people or re not new to the game like it when someone post a mistke fare or a great deal. No need to justify your post. Even anyone in it for the money because if they have valuable content they will survive, if it is BS content the blog will die. Afterall, this is America a place where capitalism rules! We all have to earn our daily keep so let’s stop with the moral bullshit and those that feel they are in possession of moral high ground of making money. Finally, we are having fun here NOT curing cancer.
Speaking of ‘Doing it for the Money’…. I’ve read plenty of blogger posts where cc links are inserted. So be it. The value of any blogger is the information they get out to their readers. That’s what counts!
2 examples:
MMS did a series where he walks you through getting the Southwest Companion pass, and how to use it. I was new to SW, so this was useful.
TPG did a series om how to cash in your Avios points. I just got the BA cc, and planned on using my miles to get from NY to South America (prior to the devaluation). Timing was important.
Back them, when I flew UA, I didn’t know about SW and BA programs.
Both of those blogs very extremely useful to me when I needed a crash course, due to the timeliness of the time.
My advice to you TS, keep ’em coming. The next new deal is just around the corner. (At least that’s predictable).
Epic. Great response. Agree with dhammer53 – I really don’t care about links as long as the info is useful to me. If I don’t care about the info, I don’t care about the links because I’m generally not reading any longer. I don’t understand why people get so upset by the links.
They need to chill
Believe it or not, I was going to use this exact sentence for this post but decided not to. No joke.
Even better would have been “they need to CTFO.” (Chill the __ out)
Either you are delusional or a complete hypocrite. You really think that thepointsguy had that AP post because he was just “trying to help people out”?
Don’t you think that he was trying to sell more credit cards by providing his readers with more tools to meet minimum spending so that he can sell more credit cards?
1) He’s written about and mentioned Amazon Payments several times before. 2) TPG usually sells credit cards in every post, and he didn’t in that one. 3) $1K a month in MS is nothing compared to the multitude of other techniques that exist and that has been written about on TPG.
If that post wasn’t useful and didn’t help people, his business would suffer and he’d get fewer views and fewer commissions in the future. It’s in his best interest to provide useful content. He doesn’t always, and I’m sure he’s lost a ton of readers because of it. But I see nothing wrong with that one post.
How bout them apples boy George?
Great write up TS, I can get the same sense. There is a snowball effect on some posts. I like your posts, always informative bringing together bits of information into one place. Keep up the great work.
Great post. I agree with everything you said. The negativity has been very noticeable lately. It was never like this years ago.
Congratulations for standing up for YOU. You hit the nail on the head. The day you fold to the pressure to do what others tell you, you SHOULD do will be a sad day for all. I left the same message on the miles professor today. She folded and hope she will stand back up.
People have become ridiculously paranoid. I think you explained yourself very well, but some people will continue firing off the same arguments even though they are wrong. If this doesn’t get through to them, I would stop engaging them. That’s something The Points Guy does very well.
Agreed, it’s just that some of them are people that I’ve met and like. Some are friends. It gets difficult at a certain point but I’ll need to find a way.
You will find, they are your friends IF you agree with THEIR point of view
BRAVO!
Good insight as to the causes of the problem. The “Angries” need to chill and not be so pompous. No need to look over your shoulder. Just keep on with the informative posts.
Rubbish. Self serving drivel. There are two types of people – takers and givers. Pimps (takers) shoving CC links down our throat (or even worse, to gain a few pathetic new viewers) in exchange for outing deals are takers/scumbags/vermin only looking out for #1, but who rationalize their scummy behavior in a hundred different ways (your post is chock full of them).
Givers are those who discuss deals with sensitivity and awareness of the dangers of detailed public discussion are the givers. Teach a man to fish vs give a man a fish. Two vastly different outlooks on the world. Decide which one you want to be.
I consider my posts to be “teaching a man to fish” and I was actually going to make that analogy in the post before writing it a different way. I just keep finding it funny how people tell me I’m in it for the money when I’ve made so, so little since quitting my job.
Wait. What just happened? Did you just say a “taker” is someone who shares with others?? In your world, which way is up?
I especially agree with the part about how most of the complainers seem to be those who have been profiting for years(on a personal travel level) off this hobby. MS pigs are what kill deals faster than blogs. People that hit their local Simon’s daily set off alarm bells as this isn’t reasonable or normal activity. If you have run out of cards to get bonuses for it may have been because you and others got that bonus 10x each. People have to think more in the vein of sustainability and less in the vein of gluttony. If you think you deserve to always fly in F maybe pay for it? No wonder airlines are restricting redemption and also going with less F cabins. When they are filled with people paying pennies on the dollar why would they have them? Airlines have to make money. If they aren’t making money they are going to change their practices. MS’ing a million DL miles or whatever isn’t helping the situation. /end rant
+1
This. You may now drop the mic. Blog posts do less damage than the so called heavy hitters.
I love capitalism and the creation of new markets and careers. Far be it from me to be upset at anyone for trying to make a living doing what they love. If I don’t like the way they choose to make their living, so be it. Call it ignorance (although it is bliss…) but I’ve just never had someone put a gun to my head and force me to read a blog/blogger. It might be different in other parts of the world, but I just don’t see why we can’t just let it go when someone does things differently than we would do it.
“But what if they ruin it for the rest of us?” No offense, but I think most people drastically overestimate how much banks care about this stuff. We do not move the needle on their quarterly statements, not even a little bit. Also, I doubt banks have closets filled with people scouring every points blog out there looking for the loopholes in their system. They know loopholes exist and just don’t care.
I also find it hilariously ironic that everyone points out FlyerTalk as the bastion of information sharing and community but then bash Randy Peterson, Lucky, TPG, etc., for trying to make money from their stuff. Any post you make on FlyerTalk is used by Internet Brands to do the exact. same. thing.
Always remember: if you’re getting something for free, you’re the product, not the customer.
Another thing that is funny about all of this is that everyone learned somewhere. The haters didn’t figure out the whole game themselves.
Last point, I don’t get people that don’t post mistake fares(I don’t believe that there a lots of them confined to secret forums and networks btw). Fares via the US WILL be honored due to law. So book the fares you want and then publish the mistake for others to get at. I don’t get the secrecy. Again, people hiding these fares didn’t figure out the game on their own.
I am personally grossed out on Twitter by the petty jabs between points bloggers. Unfollowing a lot of bloggers lately, (
not you;) Wonder when they will realize this has a negative impact on their followers.
George moved to my “Blogs to Ignore” list over 3 mths ago and it was because of the type of behavior you described. He needs to take some of his own advice on providing good content and do so in a professional way. He seems to describe “entertainment” as the opportunity to bludgeon others for things he decides is not right. The day I deleted him from the blogs I read and unfollowed him on twitter was when he asked his readers to decide whether VFTW and OMAT should be moved to the Ignore list. It was like throwing fresh meat to lions in his comment section. I no longer wanted to be a part of his community or support it in any way. Thank you for taking a stand and writing your thoughtful post knowing the type of comments you may have to deal with.
I really don’t understand why people don’t get on FM’s case when they’re freaking out about things here. Some of his blog posts recently have been MUCH more revealing than anything that you wrote. Seems like a huge double standard.
Bingo. FM can do whatever he wants. This is classic bullying.
Your recent posts are well done and probably helpful to newcomers. I learned nothing new and would guess 99% of the content is posted elsewhere. So anyone who thinks you have revealed some great secret isn’t aware of what’s out there. With no more VRs, no OVs at WM, and fewer churnable cards, people are nervous. But this is hypocrisy. We love a new credit card issue, but cower in fear that there might be a rules change. It’s a game, and the only thing certain is that things will change. Blaming you and other bloggers for what has and what might happen is wasted energy. People need to just deal with it (or quit the game). You are trying to help people, which I respect. Keep doing your thing.
timely post considering what went down with the Miles Professor today….
Bravo for standing up for yourself and to those who criticized you!!!! I’m just sorry that so many found it necessary to verbally attack you. IMHO, their vitriolic outbursts were unwarranted as well as, from many of the attackers, hypocritical. You have every right to post any content you think may help your readers (and benefit you) as long as the content is honest and factual. Thank you for your informative posts. I appreciate the energy and work you put into them. (And as you are the one doing the work, I would expect you to benefit from your labors.)
If I could teach only one value to live by, it would be this: Success will come and go, but integrity is forever. Integrity means doing the right thing at all times and in all circumstances, whether or not anyone is watching. It takes having the courage to do the right thing, no matter what the consequences will be. Building a reputation of integrity takes years, but it takes only a second to lose, so never allow yourself to ever do anything that would damage your integrity. Amy Rees Anderson – Forbes
When bloggers defend themselves and say all info should be dispelled publically I then ask why they don’t teach us all the ends and outs of “How to Make Money from Affiliate CC Links from Blogging”. I find it ironic that bloggers get very defensive when you ask them why they don’t have circles and arrows pointing the way for us to get in on what they are doing… making money and bonus points from credit card companies when they offer links in their blogs to get referrals. They begin to circle the wagons to protect their own turf since for them it’s also getting more and more competitive among themselves so they don’t want to teach and encourage others to get in on what really is the next step up from just ms’ing to get points, miles and cashback. The bloggers are at the top of the game and that’s just fine. But, if one truly feels there should be free flowing information broadcast publically about ms methods then let’s see some articles on bloggers experiences and how tos about cc referral links, how much can be made, what are the quotas they require (site hits, referrals and more) and all the steps on how we can make money from cc referral links in a blog. Of course, I haven’t found a travel hacking blogger yet that’s willing to do that. Interesting isn’t it?
ed – have you read my posts on affiliate links? I discuss the amounts, the companies, etc. Bloggers don’t usually have the freedom to discuss it openly (it is against their contract with affiliate companies) so that’s why they don’t disclose amounts and other things.
http://travelsummary.com/the-affiliate-game-can-be-a-dirty-proposition/
http://travelsummary.com/the-rich-get-richer-small-blogs-cant-compete-on-credit-card-affiliate-links/
Please don’t take my comment too personal. I was generalizing about the travel bloggers as a whole. Yes, I read your earlier posts about the subject and how you aren’t comfortable with some of the cc companies demands to bloggers. I appreciate your honesty. But, I still don’t see the subject listed at the top of their page about how to get into the cc referral game like I see “Beginners Guide to Earning”, “Manufactured Spending” and so forth. I’m talking about the majority of bloggers. I’m not saying it’s wrong for them to want to protect their piece of the pie.
I think the reason for this has less to do with a lack of honesty and more to do with the scope of the blogs. As a whole, our community is about teaching people how to travel better using credit cards and loyalty programs. I don’t necessary blame blogs for not explaining the “how-tos” with regards to setting up a blog or make money as that is a completely separate topic. I, for one, am definitely not qualified to discuss details of that. I’ve done what I can with my blog in terms of getting it looking and functioning the way I want, but it’s definitely not my area of expertise and so that’s why I (and likely others) don’t feel comfortable discussing it. Or maybe I’m letting everyone off too easy…
I thought the hard part about MS was learning the techniques. Who knew it was picking my way through the ever increasing mine field of travel bloggers and Molotov cocktails (not you).